Sustainability in your everyday

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to Revolve, where we explore big questions from all angles. Each season, we use one big question to dive into a topic with experts showing how perspective matters in building thoughtful solutions. I'm Tripp Williams. Season 3 How can someone Live More Sustainably? Before we get started, a quick note on this third season of Revolve and how it looks a little different than its ancestors. As in the previous two seasons, I've interviewed people with different perspectives on our topic. This time how to live more sustainably. But this season I'm trying something new. Alongside the full interviews, I've also produced this overarching episode to tie the conversations together and give shape to what I heard and saw on the topic. I hope you enjoy Foreign. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm guessing you, like most people, appreciate the convenience and comfort of modern life. The heated and cooled homes, cars and offices. The stock supermarket shelves that offer bananas year round. The ability to swipe and click your way to a new wardrobe without leaving your home or emptying your bank account. The effortless way you can wander into a coffee shop and summon a portable drink into your hands. I can also imagine that you, like many people, don't think of all the resources used to provide each of these modern miracles. Sure, you pay the bill and buy the groceries. You know those market driven costs all too well. But what of the underlying resources and costs that don't often get factored into prices? The emissions released while shipping the bananas, for example, or the pollution generated when capturing the natural gas needed to power your furnace? This episode aims to inspire you to think of these costs more often, and then to translate that reflection into action. By sharing a series of recommendations for how to live more sustainably. We'll travel the spectrum from things you can do today at no cost to more costly investments that will take time, resources, and likely more sacrifice. Before we start, we need to address the looming elephant in the room. I mean, does it really, in the end, matter what you do? It's easy to question how one person's changes can possibly register on the global environmental ledger. So let's just get it out on the table and be honest with ourselves. No, you alone cannot solve the environmental crisis we're living in. We need true collective action to make measurable and lasting change for the better. That said, you are an absolutely critical part of the effort to build a more sustainable future. You may not move the needle on your own, but your efforts nudge it toward perceptible change. Plus, sustainable living is I'D argue a personal, individual moral imperative. We aren't alone on this planet, though we often act and behave like it's our playground. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge first, that Earth is comprised of a multitude of complex ecosystems, second, that we don't completely understand how each ecosystem operates, let alone how all ecosystems interact with and third, that we live alongside a multitude of other beings that make the world a rich and vibrant place. Living sustainably is to operate with humility within natural systems, recognize resources are finite, and respect other living beings. As we discuss and make recommendations for sustainable living, I'm going to frame the conversation in tiers. The first tier will focus on low hanging fruit, the most straightforward things you can do to live more sustainably, coming with little to no cost and not requiring significant lifestyle change or investment. The second tier will go further into structural personal changes you can make to weave sustainability into your life. The third tier will be our graduate course and introduce you to the sustainable policy discussion that is so critical to the health of the Earth going forward. Today's episode features conversations with three voices in sustainable living. Bree Mundt, an author and sustainability thinker. [00:03:59] Speaker B: There is something to be said for like upcycling, recycling, donating, Heather Williams, owner [00:04:04] Speaker A: of a Seattle based zero waste store [00:04:05] Speaker C: named Mimi's Doors opened October 1, 2021 [00:04:11] Speaker A: and Michael Dembrow, most recently a state senator in Oregon's legislature. [00:04:14] Speaker D: Oregon is, of course, we all know, a wonderful state. [00:04:19] Speaker A: You'll hear from them throughout the episode and we'll post their complete interviews as adjoining episodes. I hope you enjoy the discussion. Level 1 Low Hanging Fruit when people talk about sustainability, a significant amount of attention is fixed on our carbon problem, carbon emissions, and the resulting rise from these emissions in global temperatures and the impact these global changes will have on our quality of life. [00:04:49] Speaker D: People, when they think of environmentalism and sustainability, they think of the natural world. You know, they think of, of trees and, you know, our natural resources. They think of climate change and climate action, you know, reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and living in a more sustainable manner. As far as, you know, reducing emissions goes. And all of that is extremely important. [00:05:22] Speaker A: That's Oregon State Senator Michael Denbrough. But there are other things related to sustainable living closer at hand that also deserve our attention. [00:05:30] Speaker D: But equally important is the way that we relate to the material goods that we manufacture. And we use a simple place to start. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Educate yourself on what living sustainably means. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Stress yourself out about being the perfect consumer. There's no such thing as a human. We kind of, we just like existing produces emissions. It just, it comes with the gig. So don't worry about being the perfect person and like living off the land, being hippie who never eats meat or dairy and like grows their own food from compost, it just kind of comes with the gig. You just kind of have to decide which trade offs you want to make, if you're capable of them, and then try to educate yourself into like what's the best decision for me? [00:06:14] Speaker A: One area to get smarter plastic, which is extended into nearly every corner of life. It takes effort to find clothing without a plastic derivative. You knew polyester is a plastic, right? Plastic is also a preferred packaging material, understandably. It's lightweight, durable, doesn't break if dropped like glass, and it's cheap to produce. [00:06:34] Speaker D: You know, the reason that we have so much plastic is, you know, it's convenient, it, you know, it, it does a good job in many cases, but most of all, it's cheap. [00:06:52] Speaker A: It also has a darker side of hidden costs that make it less than ideal as our primary packaging material. Take waste and the impact that waste can have on water quality, air quality, plant and animal habitat, health and overall quality of life. In the last 50 to 60 years, Americans have been downright dazzled by the convenience of plastics. Lightweight, non breakable, and we thought recyclable. And we became addicted to it. Take a trip to the store and you'll be hard pressed to find something in non plastic packaging. And sometimes the effort just doesn't seem to be worth it. For many people living in a city, for example, disposing of waste is as simple as putting a bin out at the curb each week and watching the waste magically disappeared. But we know of course, that the waste isn't disappearing. Every item purchased at a store that makes its way into a waste bin ends up in a landfill or some alternative destination to our collective detriment. Little information on our plastic consumption rate. According to the EPA, in 1960, less than 400,000 tons of plastic were generated. That's still an astounding number, but wait until you hear what the later numbers are. All the waste generated, all the plastic generated in 1960, by the way, ended up in a landfill. So we had a 0% recycling rate. By 1990, plastic generation had grown to over 17 million tons, with just 370,000 of those tons ending up recycled. That's a 2% recycling rate. Fast forward to 2018, the last year EPA numbers were available and plastic generation had exploded to over 35 million tons, with just over 3 million tons recycled. Equating to a 9% overall recycling rate. Now you might say, look, we're much better at recycling today. Our recycling rate has more than quadrupled. That's fair. True, our recycling rate has increased. But it's pretty difficult to deny that the overall volume of plastic generated trounces any benefit of the increased recycling rate. More plastic went to the landfill in 2018, just shy of 27 million tons, than was generated in 2000 at all. This is not a good trend now. Why should we care? Here are a couple reasons why having so much plastic in the environment is a bad thing. Plastics break down and leach into water and air. Microplastics have been found in animal tissue and remote areas humans don't even inhabit. The compounds in these plastics have been linked to health hazards, including endocrine system disruption, diabetes, and reproductive health challenges. The evidence for a causal link between plastic exposure and ingestion and these conditions is light. But let me ask you do you want to take the chance and have plastic in your body or or blanketing the world? Two last arguments for you here. Plastics are made from fossil fuels, and according to the center for International Environmental Law, by 2050, plastic production and incineration could emit 2.8 gigatons of CO2 per year, releasing as many emissions as 615500 megawatt coal plants. This is not a good thing. Second, and potentially most devastatingly, plastics actually aren't very recyclable. There are a series of plastic types you probably have noticed on containers. There are usually triangles with numbers in them. This helps you delineate what type of plastic you're dealing with and ideally helps you route that to the appropriate waste stream. Plastics 1, which is PET and 2 HDPE, are the most recyclable in the sense that they can be made into new products at the end of their use. Plastics 3 through 7, on the other hand, have small resale markets, meaning they have pretty small recyclable and reuse options. Now, even for plastics one and two, the most recyclable, they can only actually be recycled one to two times before the quality of the plastic itself becomes too low to be useful. So what do we do to kick your plastic habit? Try a couple of these simple changes. And believe me when I say simple. I promise you these are easy to take on. First, use a water bottle you already own or buy one made primarily of aluminum. Aluminum, by the way, can be recycled an infinite number of times. Most of all, please, for the love of the world, avoid single use plastic water bottles like the plague. Second, another simple one Decline condiment packages you don't plan on using when you take home orders from restaurants. Many restaurants throw these in as a default and then you, when you get home not wanting them, will throw them away in the garbage before you even begin to eat the food. So save the waste, save the hassle, and please just ask restaurants to not include these when they give you the food. Third, look for and visit stores and cafes that use paper and compostable packaging to support the effort and the investment made in more responsible materials that have a more sustainable life cycle. Fourth, don't put your fruit and vegetables in plastic bags at the store. Instead, put them in your whatever bag you use to bring them home and wash them thoroughly when you get home. Next, don't use plastic garbage bags in all of your garbage cans at home if and where you can just use the bin and clean it out periodically as needed. And lastly, for all of our coffee and tea drinkers, take your own cup to Starbucks or your cafe of choice and avoid taking a lid every time you buy a drink. Okay, to close out this first section. Beyond plastic, here are some of the Low stakes Low cost, easy to implement ways to start living more sustainably Be discerning with what you buy. Do you really need that additional item? Educate yourself on sustainable living and the impact of your purchases. Save and reuse wrapping paper for gifts and or padded envelopes you get in the mail for packages you might end up sending to people. And lastly, use less heat or air conditioning. You can start with no cost actions like using clothing layers or window shades to influence temperature. And that way avoid having to use your heating and air conditioning more often. Okay, so we've gotten a hold of the basics. Now what? On this next level, the focus turns to bigger habit changes and new actions. On top of being a conscientious consumer, you actually seek out new stores or product lines which will likely take time and energy to locate. But bear in mind, once you navigate this change and find your new sources, it's smooth sailing. With a smaller footprint, you may experiment with lifestyle changes such as eating less meat. And you don't need to become a full vegetarian to start to make a difference either. [00:13:58] Speaker B: I've been a vegetarian for about two years, but before that I was a flexitarian for like four years and had defined it as like. In my home I will only eat like non meat or dairy things but when I go out to eat like I'll make exceptions because you know, who wants to pay 17 for a salad when it can come with chicken on it. [00:14:16] Speaker A: Small incremental changes can add up. According to an economist infographic, going vegan for two thirds of your meals could reduce food related carbon emissions by 60%. You've also internalized the difference between compostable and biodegradable, and make purchases with this in mind. [00:14:33] Speaker B: So greenwashing is obviously a thing that you want to look out for, and it's hard to navigate what is greenwashing, what's not. So one quick example of that is like biodegradable versus compostable. Biodegradable sounds great, but in theory, everything is biodegradable, like if you give it enough time. Compostable is not greenwashing, because composting. In order for a company to use compost as an advertising label, it has to be like, degraded by a certain timeframe. Whereas biodegradable, like water bottles are biodegradable even though they'll last tens of thousands of years. [00:15:04] Speaker A: You know what to look for in products and have a short list of brands you trust. And if you can't find them at a given store, you may even forgo the purchase altogether. You may also pay for specialized waste disposal services. One example of such a service is Ridwell, a slick company based in Seattle that picks up specialized waste from your home to divert it from landfills. Ridwell covers plastic, batteries, light bulbs, clothing, small electrical appliances, printer cartridges, and other niche waste items. See if Ridwell is available in your area or if there are similar services you can use. You may also try and reduce waste by shopping at a zero waste store. But first you might ask, what is a zero waste store? [00:15:48] Speaker C: Zero waste came from back in the 80s, actually, a man named Daniel Knapp who was encouraging municipalities to take up kind of a total recycling and the idea that, you know, nothing would actually go to waste or go to a dump, that there would be recycle and reuse programs for everything that you were putting in your trash bin. And then that sort of evolved to, you know, rethinking how you do things at home, rethinking how industry does things, rethinking food systems. And it's just kind of expanded from that initial concept around total recycling. [00:16:26] Speaker A: That's Heather Williams, owner of Mimi's Zero waste Market in Ballard, a neighborhood in north Seattle. What does the store look like and what's the shopping experience like? [00:16:37] Speaker C: It'll look very different than a traditional grocery store or market. You'll see large bulk containers, usually mostly glass, sometimes five gallon type of jugs, and lots of other items with Minimal to no packaging. They may just have a cardboard box or a small tag tied to them, but very little packaging. [00:17:05] Speaker A: Zero waste doesn't mean poor quality. To the contrary, you can find all sorts of great products on offer. [00:17:10] Speaker C: Our products are actually great products. You're not compromising the quality of your clean laundry to make, to make a [00:17:19] Speaker A: more environmental choice, need even more product ideas. [00:17:23] Speaker C: One of our best sellers is also our toothpaste tabs. And I think, yeah, people enjoy not having to squeeze out a messy plastic tube. And, and so they're just little tabs you put in your mouth and chomp a couple times and they powder up. And then you brush normally with a wet toothbrush and it lathers up like, like normal toothpaste. We have a locally made wonderful deodorant that comes in a compostable push up tube, a cardboard tube. That's, that's one of our best sellers. It's a great product. Our laundry, we have a laundry powder, a liquid concentrate, and then also dishwasher powder. And those are really popular too, I think, also because it's a easy first swap. We also carry a fabulous dish soap bar that's made in Gig Harbor, Washington. It's super effective. It lathers great. And one block, it's kind of a block. It's bigger than like a traditional bar. So it lasts over four months. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Here we are. You have a new level of commitment to sustainability through new habits and lifestyle choices. How can we take living sustainably even further? When you get to level three, you're using sustainability as an ordering mechanism. In your entire life, you've made the smaller behavioral changes mentioned earlier in the episode into a regular, maybe even daily habit. You have the zero waste store on regular rotation. You talk about sustainability with friends and family often. You live, breathe and sleep sustainability at work. You encourage your employer to be more sustainable. You inquire about employee communities related to sustainability and join them. You keep an eye on opportunities to make your workspace or company products and services even more sustainable. And you may even have some co workers rolling their eyes at you as the resident Teva wearing granola hippie. But the thing is, when you see them rolling their eyes, you feel pride. You may start a side hustle focused on sustainability. Write a book, launch a social media account, start a podcast, or maybe even open a store like the guests we've had on today. Or you may choose to get more involved in advocating for sustainability policies and government action to promote sustainability. Okay, buzzword check. What is sustainability policy and what does it look like in the real world outside of textbooks. We talked with Oregon State Senator Michael Dembrow about his work in the Oregon legislature, including some trailblazing sustainability policies he's been leading. [00:19:56] Speaker D: You know, I think each of us has a personal responsibility to do what we can, but also a responsibility to make sure that those who represent us are setting up the systems that really protect us and further the interests, our interests, and the interests of the planet. [00:20:16] Speaker A: You may wonder, how does this show up in my world? Well, policies like these determine how recycling is managed in your area, or if there were bottle refund policies, or if your area has any ban on plastics or recycling options at all. One area Senator Dembrow focused on more recently is extended producer responsibility, often referred to as epr. European legislatures have been focused on this for some time, and representatives in the US have been catching up in recent years. EPR sets out to require that companies that create products responsibly retire the waste that's generated when they sell the product to consumers. Think for example of the bottle you buy your shampoo in or the pouches you buy for your toddler. For a while, recycling stood as the primary eco friendly solution. The reality was many of the materials disposed of in recycling containers in the United States ended up on a ship to Asia where they could be mismanaged in all sorts of ways that could be hazardous to humans, animals, and nature in general. Plastic could be dumped in a community and end up filling waterways or burned and released toxic fumes that polluted the air. This fragile and ungainly system was upended in 2018 when the biggest destination for our recyclables, China, said enough. [00:21:32] Speaker D: We in the United States dealt with our, our plastics by shipping them off to China and then forgetting about them. It was actually cheaper to send them across the Pacific Island, Pacific Ocean, sorry, and have them disposed of by someone else. Well, you know, the fact is that they were not being recycled responsibly in China either. They would tend to be put into landfills or incinerated and creating great, you know, environmental degradation and negative health effects on the Chinese people. So in 2017, the Chinese government decided that starting in 2018, they would never, they would no longer take our contaminated recyclables. And I say contaminated because they, you know, they were supposed to just be recyclable things that we were giving them, but it was contaminated with all sorts of things that made it very difficult to recycle. They, they called their new policy Operation National Sword. And I can tell you that here in the States it freaked people out because suddenly, you know, they were tearing their hair out. What do we do with our, you know, recyclables now? And there was actually a lot of anti Chinese sentiment that was generated at the time. But you know, at the end of the day, I think that Operation National Sword, not only was it the correct decision for China, but it was the correct decision for us because it got us to start to take responsibility and to put, or at least to share that responsibility with those who were producing the products. [00:23:37] Speaker A: Oregon is one of the first states to pass legislation making producers responsible for the disposal of the materials associated with their products. How they are doing this is a creative example of sustainability policy. [00:23:48] Speaker D: What it does is it, it has a notion of shared responsibility where that, you know, the disposability of products is a shared responsibility for you know, obviously local governments, you know, for haulers, the recycling industry, but also for producers. [00:24:14] Speaker A: The law has all sorts of thoughtful features including establishing bodies called producer responsibility organizations, entities responsible for making sure anything sold in Oregon can be recycled. [00:24:27] Speaker D: Creates a non, either a non profit or a for profit entity called a producer responsibility organization which takes responsibility for the material, working with the producers and you know, the, the other, the other players and makes sure that, that the products, if they're going to be ultimately sold in Oregon, they have to be recyclable and they create a list of, you know, what kinds of products can be recycled and they have to guarantee that the products are given to or sold to what are called responsible end users, that is those that, you know, where they're not just going to wind up in a landfill where they actually going to be responsibly recycled in a way that protects the health of the people who live in the area where it's being, you know, where the, the recycling is happening, you know, the shredding, the, you know, the recreation of the new materials, etc. There needs to be a strong health component and the workers need to be paid fairly. Those, those are all things that the producer responsibility entity needs to guarantee. And the producer responsibility entity is funded by fees levied onto the producers to [00:26:11] Speaker A: push for long term change. Incentives are provided to encourage the use of more sustainable materials and product development in the first place. [00:26:18] Speaker D: The producer responsibility entity is funded by fees levied onto the producers. And those fees are really a function of two things. One, you know, the weight of the material, it's kind of a standard way of assessing fees, but also their recyclability. And so you know, the lighter that they are and the more recyclable they are, the less the producer has to pay for them, which creates an incentive for them to come up with new, new packaging that is going to be more recyclable. It's a system that is technically known as eco modulation, where the price is modulated according to, you know, the ecological nature of the product, of the process. [00:27:21] Speaker C: Right. [00:27:22] Speaker D: So, and that, that's a system, as I say, that has been used in Europe, is being used in Europe and we are seeing really creative new technologies emerging that is creating better packaging and that, that, that packaging, which is being pioneered in Europe is now starting to make its way here in the US because remember, these are all multinationals and, and so that technology is then being added to their products here in the US because remember, especially if it's lighter, it's going to be less costly and, and in many ways, the more ecological it is, actually, the less expensive it is. [00:28:11] Speaker A: There are other creative policies in motion out there. Another, supported by Senator Dembrow, is a right to repair law requiring companies to provide consumers with information needed to support efforts to repair a product before it's disposed of. If you're looking for an outlet for your passion for sustainability, joining the policy discussion at the local, state and federal government levels is a great option to start. Find out your local representative's position on sustainability and engage them in a discussion on how they could do even more. We've covered a lot of ground in a short time and if you remember one thing, please have it be this. It doesn't take a lot to live more sustainably. You can start a new habit today that puts you on a more sustainable path right away. And you don't have to be a tree hugger or love to camp to get into sustainability either. Come as you are and accept the challenge to make just one part of your life more sustainable. Of course, if you want to go further, have at it. I'll be posting the full interviews with each of our guests referenced in this episode so you can learn from them. In my interview with Bre, we'll dive deeper into more ways to live sustainably and get her recommendations on resources to use in your own sustainability journey. In my interview with Heather, we get into the details of the zero waste movement and how she has built her store to serve customers seeking more sustainable options. And in my interview with Senator Dembrow, we talk about what led him to serve in the Oregon legislature and focus his energies on sustainable policy and also delve deeper into the intricacies of extended producer responsibility. And the law he co sponsored to establish parameters for it in Oregon. I'll leave you with one last thought. Every action you take to use Less is a benefit to Earth and its resources. It can feel small, sure, and it takes effort, but the fact that you make a sustainable and thoughtful choice is a big deal and we all thank you for it. Thanks for listening. Check the show notes for links and information mentioned in the episode and explore the other episodes in this season to learn more on this topic. Look, I've listened to them all. I'm obviously a little bit biased, but I really do think each offers a valuable perspective you'll appreciate. Before we go, subscribe to our show to get new episodes as soon as they come online. And please rate us on whatever podcast app you use that helps other people discover the show as well. We'd be excited to hear from you. Send us a [email protected].